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This is a copy of the book published by Nutech and reproduced here with permission, but without the excellent photographs that are published with the book.
If you wish a full copy of this book I suggest you go to the following website of
From Joe via Brett:
Joe has said that everyone has his or her own "polarization"
(Y Factor). Some of these polarizations are:
* North Pole - forward (good for getting cells working)
* South Pole - reversed (good for getting cells working)
* North Pole - reversed (not good for getting cells working)
* South Pole - forward (not good for getting cells
Now you may be getting concerned that you are one
of the "polarizations" that are "not good for
getting cells working", and therefore will be or have been
unable to get your Joe Cell to go beyond stage 1. The purpose
of this chapter is to describe one process of how to temporally
resolve this "polarization" situation.
Overview and Equipment
This process is similar to showering, bathing or
sleeping - only in that it is not permanent! Therefore as often
as you need to work on your Joe Cell to get it beyond Stage 1,
you may need to follow this process. There is minimal equipment
required, only the following:
1 x compass or analogue watch/clock
1 x 12 V battery, fully charged with clean terminals
1 x chair (non magnetic)
1 x four sided table (non magnetic)
As with working with the Joe Cell, ensure that you
hands are clean. The steps for this simple process are:
Step 1 Use the compass or watch to determine the
direction of North.
Step 2 Align the sides of the table to each of the
cardinal compass directions.
Step 3 Place the chair on the North side of the table
so that when you are sitting in it you are looking South over
Step 4 Place the battery on the table with the +
(positive) terminal to the West and the - (negative) terminal
to the East.
Step 5 Sit in the chair facing the table.
Step 6 Lick your Thumb, Index and Middle fingers
of your right hand.
Step 7 With your right hand reach across your body
and using the digits moistened with your saliva grip the - (negative)
Step 8 Keep your left arm in your lap or by your
left side and wait in that position for 30 seconds.
Step 9 Lick your Thumb, Index and Middle fingers
of your left hand.
Step 10 With your left hand reach across your body
under your right arm, without touching it or your clothes
and using the digits moistened with your saliva grip the +
Step 11 If you feel any "buzzing" in your
fingers or thumbs, then with one digit at a time, break contact
with the terminal (ie lift it off but leave the rest in contact)
and circle/move/rotate it in an anticlockwise direction
seven times, then put it back on the terminal. Repeat this process
as many times as necessary for each digit until you feel no "buzzing".
Step 12 Once all "buzzing" has been eliminated
then maintain your grip for at least five minutes, but no more
than seven minutes. Ensure that you keep an air gap between your
arms during the whole time.
Step 13 Release your grip of the + (positive) terminal
and move your left hand back across your body under your
right arm, without touching it or your clothes to the
position it was in at Step 8.
Step 14 Release your grip of the - (negative) terminal
and move your right hand back across your body.
Your should now be temporally "polarized"
in a form that is "good for getting cells working" and
be ready to work on getting your Joe Cell beyond stage 1.
The following is a report from Bruce, an avid and
long standing experimenter from Adelaide ( Aust. ). Bruce has
spent years researching Orgone and the Joe cell. I thank you Bruce
for sharing with us your many experiments.
RESULTS USING SMALL CONES AND DE-IONISED WATER
( April 1997 )
The following experiments were done using small cones,
de-ionised water in a glass container and a D.C. power supply
capable of 48 Volts at 20 Amps.
VITA HEALTH POWDER - KAL 5..
Test 1: Monday 28/04/97. De-ionised water with no additives - Current = 0.5 A, very few bubbles, no precipitation.
Test 2: Monday 28/04/97.(10.00 AM) Added 2 teaspoons full of Vita Health powder containing Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium and Sodium salts. Current began at 2.5A and slowly rose to 3 A with more bubbles than Test 1 but all hydrogen (yellow flame, etc)
Test 3: Monday 28/04/97.(16.15 PM) Bubbles had remained
on cones from the morning's experiment. Turned power on and current
= 4 A with lots of hydrogen bubbles. Water became warm after
15 mins. and white deposits were floating on top.
Test 1: Tuesday 29/04/97. Began with fresh water
and added 2 teaspoons of Epsom Salts (magnesium sulphate) Current
began at 11 A and climbed to 16 A. Turned off and diluted mixture
Test 2: Wednesday 30/04/97. Current draw began at
8A on switch on, then climbed to 13 A. Producing lots of gas
- very large bubbles on the surface (lots of surface tension)
and lots of very fine bubbles in the water itself. Very little
deposits floating on the water with what was there being white
in colour. Both explosive and implosive gas when lit.
Test 3: Thursday 01/05/97. Left 24 hours and turned
on again. Drew 10 A current and produced both implosive and explosive
gasses. Lots of brown gunk floating on the surface. (scooped off)
Test 4: Friday 02/05/97. Turned on and current draw
was 7 A which then rose to 11.5 A. Mainly implosive gas with
lots of brown gunk floating on the surface. (scooped off)
Test 1: Friday 02/05/97. Started with fresh water and added 0.25 teaspoon of caustic soda. (potassium hydroxide) Current was 13 A with pure white bubbles with lots of clumping together (high surface tension) on the surface, a vapour appearing above that and lots of very small bubbles causing the water to look white about in the top half of the glass container. When lit, bubbles were definitely hydrogen. Deposits on top of the water were mainly white with a faint tinge of brown. There was not enough to warrant scraping off.
Test 2: Friday 02/05/97. Diluted mixture by half,
current now 8 A, still producing lots of hydrogen gas. Very
loud when lit. Deposits on top of the water were mainly white
with a faint tinge of brown, but still not enough to warrant
Test 3: Saturday 03/05/97. Current had dropped slightly
to 6 A with gas exploding very loud, much louder than the previous
day. Bubbles were very white with a small amount of white deposits
floating on the water.
Test 4: Sunday 04/05/97. Current had dropped again
to 5.5 A with the gas definitely hydrogen when lit producing
a very loud explosion but with yellow flame. Reversed the polarity
on the cones and immediately there was a great mass of bubbles
which collected together in a clump. (lots of surface tension)
Put the supply back the right way and the clumping effect remained.
When lit, gas was definitely implosive. No visible flame, water
splashed out of the container and my ears were ringing. No deposits
Test 5: Tuesday 06/05/97. Current now down to 4 A
but still lots of bubbles. Very loud when lit but back to hydrogen.
Did the reverse polarity and back again trick and gas became implosive
again. No deposits on water.
Test 6: Wednesday 07/05/97. Current stabilised at
4 A. Gas when lit extra loud, first hydrogen and then implosive
without any power supply fiddling. No deposits on water.
Test 7: Thursday 08/05/97. Current still at 4 A with
very loud implosive gas straight off. Bubbles appear really
white. No deposits on water.
Test 8: Friday 09/05/97. Same as Test 6.
From what we have been told by Joe, the things to look for in charging the water are:
Bubbles that have lots of surface tension so that they gather together in clumps around the centre tube
Bubbles that are implosive (no yellow flame and very loud)
Bubbles that are very white
Bubbles remain on the surface of the cones after the unit is switched off
Magnetism evident around the keg
Lots of gunk coming to the surface while the unit is running
Water rotates anti-clockwise when charged
The KAL 5 VITA HEALTH powder was the least productive
of the materials tested, I think not worth pursuing. The MAGNESIUM
SULPHATE was the only material which enabled the bubbles to remain
on the cones after the unit was switched off, however the gas
coming off was no where near as explosive/implosive as the POTASSIUM
HYDROXIDE. The KOH gave very little deposits on the water's surface
but it did give extremely powerful "bangs" when lit.
It was interesting to note a lot of action occurring under the
surface with lots of small bubbles which travelled down from the
surface, mixed with bubbles coming up from the bottom and went
back up to the surface. This sort of effect was also mentioned
by Joe. The other interesting observation was that the current
reduced from 8A down to 4A even though no material was removed
from the container.
MARK 1 JOE CELL TESTS
( JUNE 1997 )
First test done with a perspex outer tube instead
of the 4" stainless steel one. Charged water (as good as
we can charge it) was put in the cell on the car and the current
was found to be 165mA. Test drive to Goolwa gave fuel economy
of 58MPG, while the return trip to home averaged 52MPG. The next
day cracks were found in the perspex and the unit was drawing
air so I removed it. The fuel economy stayed at over 50MPG for
the next two days (lots of city driving) and then returned to
"normal" for winter running of 46MPG. The unit was then
repaired and reinstalled but a backfire destroyed it before any
more tests were undertaken.
I then rebuilt the unit with a stainless steel outer
tube (4 inch) as per the Mark 1 drawing, and reinstalled it in
the car. This time I could not get the water in the keg set-up
to "charge" properly and was not happy with it. However
I still put it in the car and found the current to be 50mA this
time. This was accounted for by the fact that I was now using
the outer tube as the positive and so this meant there was an
additional neutral plate inside the unit. I could not get any
effect at all on the running of the vehicle with this set-up.
On removing the water from the unit after three weeks, it was
full of brown deposits, similar to what you get on top of the
water during the keg treatment.
I washed the unit out and refilled it with de-ionised
water with caustic soda added to it until a current of 5A at 12V
was obtained. I refitted the unit to the car and started it. The
vacuum gauge on the unit followed the manifold vacuum for about
one minute and then went to zero, indicating a positive pressure
in the cell. The engine began to run on three cylinders and copious
quantities of steam began coming out of the exhaust. Thinking
that I had overfilled the container, I syphoned the liquid off
until it was about two thirds of the height of the container.
I repeated the test with the same results. I drove to Tailem Bend
and back to Murray Bridge where I attempted to demonstrate this
effect to Roger. However, this time there was no pressure evident
by the vacuum gauge reading and the car kept running, although
it sounded like it was running rich as if the choke was out. After
a couple of minutes the engine went back onto three cylinders
and during this whole process there was lots of steam out the
The next day I rechecked the water level (not a lot
of change) and tested the current. To my surprise the current
had increased to 10A. I topped up the water so it covered the
tubes in the cell and rechecked the current draw which was now
12A. I installed a tap in the delivery line and retested the unit.
If pressure is allowed to build up in the unit and the tap cracked
open slowly, the engine revs will increase for 15 seconds or so
and then die back to normal. If the tap is opened any more, the
engine begins to run rough and steam comes out the exhaust.
From what Joe has said on all this, and which these
experiments seem to verify, is that as soon as anything is added
to the water, you have electrolysis and thus it does not produce
enough gas to run a vehicle. I am not sure why there is the excess
of steam out of the exhaust when the tap is wide open. If there
was an air leak in the cell, this could cause excess water to
be drawn into the engine, however I can build up gas pressure
in the cell by having the delivery tap off and the pressure remains
constant on the gauge, indicating that the cell does have an airtight
I have now removed this unit off the car - end of
MARK 1 tests!
JOE CELL TESTS
The following is a summary of unusual effects that
I obtained from a very early design Joe Cell. I reported these
effects at the February ASTRO meeting but decided to submit this
article to the newsletter for those who were not at the meeting.
The cell was first built in 1993 using 2", 2.5",3"&
3.5" tubes, made from flat 316 stainless and rolled into
tubes. These were then tack welded at three points. The only alteration
from the original design is that a small SS cone was fitted above
the tubes to direct the energy into the 0.5" aluminium delivery
pipe on top of the unit.
SUNDAY 31/01/99: The unit was filled with water charged
by P & U and fitted to the car in the passenger compartment.
The aluminium delivery pipe goes through the firewall and connects
to the manifold initially via a brass fitting. The fitting was
"blind" so no actual vacuum was present on the cell.
THURSDAY 4/02/99: There was no effect so I changed
the brass fitting and made an aluminium one. I also drilled this
out so that manifold vacuum was present on the cell this time.
On starting the car it ran slightly rough as excess water was
sucked out of the cell and into the engine, then it ran smoothly.
I drove approximately 0.5 Km when the engine revs would not come
down below 2000. I drove back to the garage and switched the engine
off when it "ran on", momentarily stopped and then ran
in reverse up to about 2000 revs while I stood and watched it.
It only ran for about 5 seconds and stopped.
I switched it on again and once again the revs would
not go below 2000. This time when I turned off the ignition, it
stopped OK. I rechecked the work I had done and made sure there
were no air leaks into the manifold which could be giving me this
effect. I found nothing, reassembled everything and started the
engine again. Once again, 2000 revs. I disconnected the aluminium
delivery tube from the manifold and plugged the rubber hose from
the manifold but the engine still would not run under 2000.
Having made an appointment with an accountant and booked the car
in for a wheel alignment, I now began to get into panic mode.
I then physically removed the cell from the car, started the
engine and the found the revs had dropped to just over 1000.
By screwing in the idle mixture adjustment screw I could get it
to idle at about 800. The idle revs seem to be a bit variable
and continually ranged from 600 to 1000 and back again.
The cell was off for two days as I needed the car
reliable but I found that the effects stayed (e.g. Idle speed
varying) I found I could disconnect the anti-dieseling solenoid
and the engine would still idle, although at lower revs (about
500) and roughly. (normally this instantly kills the engine)
SATURDAY 6/02/99: I reinstalled the cell and connected
it up the same as before but did not find any difference. I have
played with the timing at various times during testing and found
that on petrol I can go in excess of 50 degrees advance with no
appreciable difference in engine running. I normally run 7 degrees
advance for best performance/economy but can experience pinging
problems. The timing was set at 10 degrees advance since the cell
was originally fitted and I could almost stall the car in third
gear, put my foot down and the engine would pull with no pinging.
I did one test where I drove the car with 20 degrees advance and
it ran OK, no pinging, just a slight dead spot at low revs.
SUNDAY 7/02/99: It appeared that the cell had died
and that the car although behaving similarly to the previous day
was losing the effects of the cell. The engine now stalled when
the anti-dieseling solenoid was disconnected but would still run
at 10 degrees advance with no pinging. I also found that during
the day I had to make the idle mixture slightly richer to obtain
a smooth idle. One thing I had noticed (since Thursday) was that
the engine was extremely hard to start when left overnight. It
acted as if flooded and would only start by leaving the accelerator
pedal flat while cranking over. Once started however, the engine
idled smoothly straight away and would start at the first flick
of the key for the rest of the day.
MONDAY 8/02/99: The car was once again difficult
to start first off, but then idled smoothly straight away once
again. I disconnected the cell and plugged the rubber hose from
the manifold and the engine appears to be almost back to normal
with a smooth idle of 800.
TUESDAY 9/02/99: Car totally back to normal, started
OK this morning, ran normally and engine stops immediately when
anti-dieseling solenoid is deactivated. I removed the cell from
the car and applied 24 volts to it from two car batteries in series.
There was some bubbling but nothing appeared out of the top of
the unit. I emptied the water into a glass bottle and the water
was quite brown. This settled to the bottom of the bottle during
the day. I washed the cell out with normal rain water, emptied
it and filled it with more charged water from the original batch.
I then applied 24 volts to the cell and immediately water and
bubbles flowed out the top and over the edge of the cell. I lit
these (hydrogen) and then masses of pure white bubbles came out
which I lit. (very loud implosive - good stuff!) I then turned
off the power and reinstalled the unit in the car. This all occurred
within 1-2 minutes as I did not want to gunk up the cell by leaving
the power on too long. I decided to repeat the circumstances of
the original test i.e. no vacuum to the cell initially, so I machined
up an aluminium plug which I then fitted into the aluminium fitting
on the manifold. (This plug is a tight fit in the hose) I started
the car and drove it for about 5Km. All appeared normal at this
The cell is still fitted to the car at this time
(9th March) but there has not been any further effects.
I have also not had the time to make any adjustments or changes.
In conclusion, the most interesting aspect of this event was that
the engine revs did not reduce until the cell was physically removed
from the vehicle and the effects as described above reduced over
a few days. It is my opinion that this demonstrates proof that
we are dealing with an energy, not a gas or some chemical reaction
as some believe. What is this energy? My bet is that it is orgone,
but who knows for sure until someone comes up with a repeatable
working unit that can be tested.
JOE CELL UPDATE ( May 10th 1999
Since my last report, the cell has been sitting in the car connected
by the aluminium pipe and rubber hose to the manifold. The hose
has an aluminium plug fitted to it so that there is no actual
vacuum present on the cell. During this period, the car has been
acting rather strangely in that the fuel mixture runs rich for
several days at a time, increasing the idle revs to about 1,000rpm
and necessitating a carburettor adjustment to lean it off again.
During this "rich" period I also noticed a drop in engine
water temperature. After a few days, the reverse happens and the
car begins to stall every time the vehicle tries to idle. Readjusting
the mixture once again brings the engine back to normal running.
These effects led me to believe that the cell was actually cutting
in and out although at a reduced effect than I had experienced
before. Overall I have been unable to get the car to run "normally"
since the cell caused it to run at 2000 revs several months ago.
Also fuel economy has worsened to about 40mpg.
After reading some of the Internet newsgroups and hearing about
some experiments in Melbourne, I decided to try placing a circular
magnet under the cell. Andrew happened to ring me up on an unrelated
matter while I was contemplating this so we discussed the idea
and he offered me some suggestions. These were North pole facing
upwards towards the cell, trying brass or gyprock (diamagnetic)
between the magnet and cell and surrounding the cell with gyprock
to eliminate the effects of outside fields.
Initially I took the cell out of the car and fed 24Volts into
it. Immediately there were masses of the small white bubbles that
we have come to know flowing over the top of the cell and down
the side. When lit there were extremely potent implosions with
one attempt ending in water shooting out of the exit tube and
hitting the roof of the shed. I then experimented with the magnet
and other compounds as mentioned above but did not notice any
difference at all.
I then fitted the unit back in the car and left the circular magnet
under the cell just to see if anything would happen. After two
..nothing happened at all! After two weeks and
one day, the engine began running roughly (in the Barossa Valley
at the time) and by the time we arrived home, it was running VERY
roughly. After investigation, I found a head gasket with a piece
missing between cylinders 2 and 3. The engine machinist who faced
the head commented that this occurrence is usually caused by the
engine pinging over a period of time. I have experienced some
pinging in the engine but nothing severe enough to cause this.
Then I remembered that the car has not run properly since the
2000 rpm episode, during which time I experimented with some rather
radical timing changes (up to 20 degrees advance) in an effort
to get the engine to run on the cell itself with no petrol. I
am now assuming that as the engine has not been running correctly
since then that this may have been when the damage started, having
now slowly progressed to a burnout of the gasket.
As I am working in Adelaide at the moment and I need the vehicle
to be reliable to travel the 450Kms per week, I have decided
to suspend any further testing with the cell on the car for a
THE JOE CELL SAGA CONTINUES (
September 1999 )
Wednesday 1/9/99: I fitted a cell given to me to
try on my car. This cell is different to any others I have tried
before in that the centre electrode (negative) is made of a 2
inch carbon rod while the outer stainless steel tube (positive)
is 4 inches in diameter. There are no neutral tubes in this cell
and the whole thing sits inside a container of plastic sewer pipe.
The bottom is flat and the top cone is made of aluminium. This
cell was given to me charged with water.
Monday 6/9/99: Nothing much happened until today
when I began the daily 100km round trip associated with getting
to work and back. After long down hill runs, on hitting the accelerator,
large quantities of oil smoke belched from the exhaust. Also when
the engine was restarted after stopping somewhere, the same thing
occurred. This is very symptomatic of worn valve stem oil seals
of which the engine was suffering to a minor degree, but the problem
was now tenfold!
Tuesday 7/9/99: This smoky situation continued today
and was getting worse to the point where sitting at traffic lights
idling, I was disappearing in a smoke screen. Definitely defectable
Wednesday 8/9/99: When I arrived home I removed the
cell, and discharged the engine of any residual charge by sparking
the positive battery volts on to the block with a piece of wire.
(I did this discharge process as from previous experience I have
found that any effects from the cell seem to last about three
Thursday 9/9/99: The car was back to normal with
almost no smoke again.
Monday 27/9/99: Even though the cell had not been
in the car for 19 days, the engine began to smoke again.
Tuesday 28/9/99: I left it until the Tuesday night,
by which time it was really bad, then discharged the block again.
Once again the next morning, no smoke.
It appears that the charge had slowly built up again
in the engine, even though the cell had not been near it. This
effect is a bit like shorting out a large capacitor which will
over time slowly regain some of it's former charge. My next step
is to replace the valve stem oil seals and fit the cell again
to see whether there is smoke or no smoke! If there is no smoke
then it would appear that if the engine has an oil sealing "weakness"
then it could be amplified by the cell. If it still smokes then
this would agree with Joe's 1993 reckoning that a plastic outer
container on a cell "will cause the motor to pollute".
** The next contributions from Bruce are slightly
off topic , but are relevant as a charging method for the water
of a Joe cell...**
ORGONE BOX EXPERIMENT ( 1991 )
The following is a brief description of an orgone
accumulator that was built by lots of other people and myself
as a combined project back in 1991. Firstly for those who have
not heard of orgone, it is the energy that gives pyramids their
interesting properties of keeping food fresh and sharpening razor
blades, etc. There is a lot of information in books by Wilhelm
Reich and others on orgone, so go search your library if you want
The basic design of the accumulator that we built
came from a book called "The Awesome Life Force" by
Joseph Cater. This unit consisted of 6mm plastic sheet cut to
size to make a box of the following dimensions: 300mm X 300mm
X 450mm. The four sides and the bottom were glued together and
the top was left separate so that it was removable. The box was
then covered with 40 layers of kitchen type aluminium foil, alternately
with 40 layers of newspaper. (Two thicknesses of newspaper were
used for each layer) If you are planning to build one of these,
we found the easiest way of making the layers was to cut the six
sets (top, bottom and four sides) of paper and aluminium, glue
them together in their sets and then glue them to the plastic
box. The whole device was then wrapped up with packaging tape
to give it a bit of protection, with the lid being wrapped up
separately. The fact that the layers on each face of the box was
not continuous did not seem to affect the operation of the accumulator.
Four experiments were tried in the box, which were carried out during summer (temperature was in the 30's):
1. An open glass of milk was placed in the box with a control glass placed in a normal cardboard box next to the accumulator.
2. A sealed jar of milk was placed in the box.
3. A stainless steel knife was placed in a jar of water in the box.
4. Temperature readings were taken inside and outside
The results were as follows:
1. The milk inside the box was still normal (liquid, smelled fresh) after seven days (end of test), while the control sample was spoiled (lumpy and rancid) after one day.
2. The sealed jar turned into yoghurt. (normal yoghurt consistency and smelled fresh)
3. The stainless steel knife became slightly magnetic and a piece of steel was attracted to it when held close to the knife. The effect was very slight and only lasted about five minutes after removal from the jar of water in the box.
4. There was no appreciable difference in temperature
that we could measure inside or outside the box.
None of the test samples were tasted due to concerns
of DOR (Deadly Orgone Radiation), and it has been suggested that
for foodstuffs, copper foil should be used and not aluminium for
this reason. It was also suggested that an internal combustion
engine could be run on this energy by passing the air through
this accumulator before it went into the engine. We did have an
attempt at this but did not have any success. However I feel that
this could have worked if the box had been left on the engine
for a longer period of time and if we had played around with the
engine timing. Maybe we will get back to it one day?
ORGONE WATER TREATMENT (
Having taken an interest in the effects of magnets
and vortexes etc. on water, I decided last summer to take a different
approach to a common problem of blocked drippers in a watering
system that we have on our fruit trees. The water initially comes
from two dams that we have on our property. This water is pumped
up to a header dam and is gravity fed via a common pipe to a point
where it is split into two feeds, one for each orchard.
Having done some previous experiments with orgone
generators, I decided to make one and put it on one of the above
water feeds so that one half of the orchard was watered with this
water and the other half had no treatment. The only constant in
the process was that I did know that in previous summers the number
of blockages in the drippers was pretty much the same in both
The orgone generator was constructed from 40 layers
of aluminium foil, separated by 40 layers of newspaper wound around
the 42mm polypipe. Some people have expressed concerns that for
anything food related, copper should be used and not aluminium,
however as it was only a short term arrangement and the water
was not being directly ingested, I decided to give it a go. As
far as I can tell there has not been any harmful side effects
from this experiment.
Now, for the results! Over the tested watering period,
there were 14 hours of watering. The first two hours showed a
reduction of 50% of blockages but during the third hour the number
of blockages rose to equal those that had occurred in the unaltered
half of the system. From then on the number of blockages dropped
dramatically, (does this scenario sound familiar?) with the final
result showing a 52% less blockage rate for the orgone treated
This test was done over a short time frame and with
a small number of drippers (78) so the results have to be taken
with that in mind, however the results for me were quite significant,
giving me a lot less work to do. The other interesting aspect
of this experiment was that I did several diggings in similar
soil types after watering and found that in each case the water
in the treated side had soaked to approximately twice the depth
of the water in the untreated side.
These results are similar to reports I have read
of the effects of placing magnets around waterpipes, both in the
reduction of dripper blockages and the effect of soaking into
the ground quicker. How the two methods tie in together I am not
sure, but it is interesting!
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